[On responding to Pro-Soviet Brits by telling of his own experience in a Soviet POW Camp]

"No, I didn't. I spent in the Soviet Union no more than five or six weeks, and as a matter of fact at that time I never was telling that I was persecuted by them. On the contrary: We lived in awful conditions, but all people lived in Russia in such conditions. Of course the soldiers, the simple non-commissioned officers, treated us as fascists, 'bloodsuckers,' 'oppressors.' I did not take it seriously. They believed that we were bloodsuckers. I did not consider myself a fascist or bloodsucker, but I didn't blame that illiterate Russian soldier who would call me such a name. Nobody would say, you 'polnische schweine!' Nobody would kick us. Nobody would slap our faces. Those few days when I came on the German side, as a non-commissioned officer, continuously: 'polnische schweine!'"

'I lied. I said that I was a housepainter, that I had been married before the war, and I left my wife pregnant”

[On the German Radom prison camp]

"Organization was better. We were better fed than in the Soviet Union. More cleanliness. Only, we were treated by the German guards-- not because of our political convictions; they couldn't suspect us of being communists because we chose to come on the German side-- but they treated us as Untermenschen. In the Soviet camp, the problem was ideology, but there was no racial persecution. To the Germans, we were subhuman. And then when they told us, 'you will go for work'-- I had enough common sense..."

"Those cattle trains, they had very narrow window very high on the sides. So I made a speech that I will jump.... 'Poland did not lose the war. I have information about a powerful Polish army in the woods, in the mountain. Listen, two men I need. Raise me and throw me out-- but carefully. At a point where there are no lights.' And I hope I will not be killed. I was a scout, a sportsman etc... They did not get me.”

[Explaining the early agreement between Poland and Russia to leave some Polish officials in place]

“At that time, my brother was commander of police in Warsaw. Like Starzynski, at the time of surrender, he receives delegation of Germans in his office. The office was Krakowskie Przedmiescie 1, big police center. He behind his desk. Here I am. Of course, already after five or six weeks, Starzynski arrested. Soon after, two most prominent Polish leaders, both socialists-- Niedzialkowski and another Peasant leader, arrested. My brother not yet arrested. I learned, walking to Warsaw, in chaos confusion-- police stays there. And who is the head of the police? Marian Kozielewski. Jesus Christ. Then I went to my sister. I did spend the night, and then I tell her. She contacted him, making him know that I am here. He didn't know what happened to me. And he met with me. “

“By the way: Krakowskie Przedmiescie 1, of the police, is a neighboring building of the Church of the Holy Cross. So then, entrance to the refectory is from the same courtyard that enters inside the police building. The pastor of this church, his true name, Edmund Krauze. Beautiful character. Up to his neck in underground activities. Very often we met with brother in the refectory, because inconspicuously, he wants to pray or something, he goes to the church, and I would enter the church from the street. This was instructions which my brother gave to my sister-- 'Let him come to [Church of Holy Cross]. Let him go to the refectory.' He gave time, I don't remember. 'Let him wait. I will come.' And he did come. Of course I asked him why he was in position. And he told me about deal involving him, Starzynski etc. At that time, as far as I remember, Starzynski already arrested. But my brother, I asked him what about you, 'So far I don't see any danger.' So he says, 'Where are you going to live?' I said, 'I have no documents, no money.'

He says, 'Don't worry about money'-- from the treasury of the police he gets money. 'I will give you [money] for survival. Most important are documents.' At that time the German authorities already passed public order that all Polish officers must report to the German authorities-- 'nothing will happen to you.' My brother says, 'One possibility, you report, under your true name. But this is not safe; don't do it. So then, how did you escape from the Soviets?' I said, 'I escaped as a noncommissioned officer, and jumped from the train as a noncommissioned officer.' He said, 'Very good. I cannot give you today, but tomorrow or day after I will give you some documents. I have a contact. In the event you will be arrested before then, give your true name and say you did not report because you were not an officer. If you give your proper name, so then I will intervene. Perhaps they will listen to me.'"

Jan Karski interviewed by E. Thomas Wood - click here to read more